Vogue Magazine - King Kong Lebron James

M.A.P. · Number of posts: 380 Registration date: 2007-11-20

swayyah wrote:

IkanCyoursoul wrote:

LMFAO !! Tizzy? You are too fucking funny!!

If I didn’t know any better, you are almost applying that because a “Muslim” agrees with you that makes it bond. Yo, it’s almost like you’re saying Muslims are the authority of blackness. LOL, well my co-worker who is Jewish agrees with you too, does that automatically refute the Muslims take? Since, religious beliefs somenhow gives you “special” insight into things. Whew! This was so damn funny to read!

For the most part I agree with Glory. ( Especially since it was so intelligently written I’m almost afraid not to Razz

) I guess as an artist/business man my take is slightly different than most of you on this board.

Damali the artist says:

First and foremost I think most people forgot a crucial component to all of this that Astr8 sort of glanced over and that photography is an artform. With that said, any piece of art is always subjective. That’s why some of us can see that picture and see the most dominant basketball player in the NBA expressing his over the top aggressivness that makes him the best with his arm around the biggest model in the world. While some of us see him as an ape swinging his helpless white victim. In almost every way the subjectivness of viewing art is almost identical to a Rorschach Ink Blot test. What you see in an image is more a reflection of YOUR psychological personality than what the artist is really attempting to express.

Damali the Biz brotha says:

Second, as a business man the only thing you are truly concerned with is the bottom line. The bottom line can only be reached via EFFECTIVE MARKETING. The cover shot is the most important photo in a publication. You have maybe 1.5 to 2 seconds max to grab the attention of someone browsing and convince them to open up and buy your product. Tizzy, you and I have always disgreed with what grabs a person’s attention and what doesn’t. I do not think that I am crossing a line when I say ( like your Grandmother Laughing

) that you do tend to lean on the more conservative side of photos. I personally never seen one ( what I would consider) “edgy” or “conversational piece” photo in any ofyour papers. They were all gorgeous and artistic but never “edgy”. The fact that we spent all of this time talking about the photo, pouring thru a European magazine that very few of us here could afford the products offered inside is a clear cut example of “effective marketing”.

LMAO !! I just had to read your response again Tizzy…I love you sooo much and damn you’re hilarious!

I was really trying to stay out of this conversation….but…

Well as an up and coming photographer, i would have to agree with Damali. Vogue is a fashion magazine and its cover art is not there to stimulate your mind, it's there to catch your eye so you can empty your pockets. If you want to discuss the plight of the black man or female, you can go to a gallery for that, or be sadly disappointed, cuz you will not find it in the Yves St. Laurent laden pages of VOGUE. study

Now if that image was on a TIME magazine cover, then it may be worth arguing over; otherwise it just seems pointless. We can sit and go back and forth about how racist they are being, but when do we take responsibility for our own actions. Yeah people get pimped, but when do we make them accountable for their own decisions silent

. If Lebron didn’t have any problem with a pose they put him in, (or one he put himself in) why are we “picketing” for him? If Jennifer thought she looked glamorous, why should we care? scratch

I think Jennifer Hudson’s cover is playful and edgy. cheers

She is stepping outside of the box, and daring to be different. That cover has life and expression as opposed to the other covers we’ve seen. I’m not a subscriber of VOGUE so I haven’t seen many covers, but the ones that M.A.P posted look very bland and dull to me, whether is was Oprah or Halle.

In terms of the Lebron issue, yeah it does look King Kongish now that you put that image in my head Mad

, but prior to that I didn’t think anything of it. Maybe I’m being naïve; it wouldn’t be the first time. But what does that show you? You have people who didn’t have any animosity towards the cover, until someone else came with there negative vibe and made people over analyze something that may or may not be racist. That did nothing but add unnecessary bad energy. Cuz now I have to think about all the bad things that this cover shows instead of acknowledging the good. Suspect

I think we should be commending these two for excelling to a place where most black entertainers haven’t been. Two young black entertainers who have graced a cover that Oprah and Halle, (2 very established people) have been on. Shocked

I think that as a race, we have a tendency to focus too much on the past. Yeah racism is still a major part of our future, but there are so many other things that we have to deal with as well. I remember hearing Tupac’s mom speak at Temple some years back and she said that this racism stuff is not our fight. It’s time for us young people to focus on things that we can change, like volunteering and fundraising for impoverished nations and even our citizens at home. Race is not the only issue now; we have socioeconomic prejudice and illiteracy and a whole host of other problems. If I focus on how racist every single advertisement or book cover is, I probably wouldn’t want to come out of my house. Racism is still alive, but I’m not gonna let it over consume me. And things in society aren’t gonna change if we stay in a negative/pessimistic frame of mind. Sleep

Duane Face · Number of posts: 90 Registration date: 2008-04-03

alyson · Number of posts: 1131 Registration date: 2007-01-04

well said swayyah cheers

_________________
alyson...

"yesterday was practice."
~ jg

glory · Number of posts: 731 Localisation: over philly Registration date: 2007-01-07

i hear you, sam.
you too, swayyah.
and damali - that's always the case - it got us talking. that was the point.

sam I am · Number of posts: 476 Registration date: 2007-01-08

im glad that we can all talk like this. i learn alot on these boards.
i understand the importance of what fueled this whole discussion and respect the concern of tizzy. some mean games are being played behind our backs right in our faces, you know? its good to be able to confer with
like and unlike minded folks like yourselves.
steel sharpens steel.

alyson · Number of posts: 1131 Registration date: 2007-01-04

sam I am wrote:

im glad that we can all talk like this. i learn alot on these boards.
i understand the importance of what fueled this whole discussion and respect the concern of tizzy. some mean games are being played behind our backs right in our faces, you know? its good to be able to confer with
like and unlike minded folks like yourselves.
steel sharpens steel.

agreed. these boards are so diverse that we are able to learn so much about so many different things.

_________________
alyson...

"yesterday was practice."
~ jg

Tizzy Lizz^ · Number of posts: 2298 Localisation: Illadelph Registration date: 2007-01-03

Yeah. This type of dialogue is real to me. Folks having different views and being independent thinkers and not being hesitant to disagree. I love it. We need it (more)

lol!

and yes Damali, Muslims are the real Blacks.

Glory - I'm kidding Smile

glory · Number of posts: 731 Localisation: over philly Registration date: 2007-01-07

Tizzy Lizz^ wrote:

and yes Damali, Muslims are the real Blacks.

Glory - I'm kidding Smile

no you ain't. BWAHAHAHA. Razz

Tizzy Lizz^ · Number of posts: 2298 Localisation: Illadelph Registration date: 2007-01-03

but I do have a question (yeah, mofos, I'm still on the subject - what geek

)...for those that call the Lebron VOGUE issue "ART"...

Would you still consider it art if the VOGUE cover was a

1) picture of a black man covered in sparkling crystalized tar with the finest of imported pigeon feathers sprinkled over him...and then the theme was "EXPLORING THE MANY USES OIL"?

And / OR Art if...

2) Don Cheadle painted in Sambo face (MAC make-up too) holding a watermelon carved by George Forman himself- theme "DIET"

would ya'll still consider that art, and not be bothered by that too?

Just checking at what does get on your radar...

Would it be acceptable? It would definitely be sensational and edgy, which is great for business and sales, as Damali pointed out, so let me know your thoughts on that.

***For some reason this question came to me while I was in the shower...I know its like talking to a wall at this point. Everybody has their view, their side, but I just have to ask this question. Then, I promise, I will leave this topic alone. Very Happy

A_Str8 · Last edited by A_Str8 on Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total

or 3) If Nas was on the cover with the word "Nigger" in big letters.

The double standard confuses me as I look back and forth at the threads around here. On the one hand, we have a magazine cover that you might find offensive if you think "ape" when you see a strong, aggressive black man with a white woman. On the other hand, a black man playing to all the stereotypes of black men in hip-hop with an album called "Nigger."

Why is it that the one that seems to be the most blatant form of degradation has folks pulling out their wallets, eager to support it as soon as possible, while the other, more questionable piece of "artwork," has some of the same people in an uproar?

In both instances, a willing black man is playing the role, so if you believe that black folks get a pass on that stuff, there's still no difference.

In both instances, some rich white folks are the ones with true ownership, so if you believe white folks DON'T get a pass on that stuff, there is still no difference.

I'm trying to remember the last time I saw Bamboozled . . .

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Duane Face · Number of posts: 90 Registration date: 2008-04-03

Nobody is gonna peel back their wallet for that album. You know folks gonna download that nigga's album for free.

M.A.P. · Number of posts: 380 Registration date: 2007-11-20

Duane Face wrote:

Nobody is gonna peel back their wallet for that album. You know folks gonna download that nigga's album for free.

M.A.P. · Number of posts: 380 Registration date: 2007-11-20

A_Str8 wrote:

or 3) If Nas was on the cover with the word "Nigger" in big letters.

The double standard confuses me as I look back and forth at the threads around here. On the one hand, we have a magazine cover that you might find offensive if you think "ape" when you see a strong, aggressive black man with a white woman. On the other hand, a black man playing to all the stereotypes of black men in hip-hop with an album called "Nigger."

Why is it that the one that seems to be the most blatant form of degradation has folks pulling out their wallets, eager to support it as soon as possible, while the other, more questionable piece of "artwork," has some of the same people in an uproar?

In both instances, a willing black man is playing the role, so if you believe that black folks get a pass on that stuff, there's still no difference.

In both instances, some rich white folks are the ones with true ownership, so if you believe white folks DON'T get a pass on that stuff, there is still no difference.

I'm trying to remember the last time I saw Bamboozled . . .

How are you judging the album and you don't even know what it says yet? That's a whole other conversation. Let's use the King magazine Stacey Dash cover instead http://wbphillysoul.editboard.com/topic-of-the-moment-f1/king-magazine-the-prototype-stacy-dash-t667.htm

A_Str8 · Number of posts: 865 Localisation: Philadelphia Registration date: 2006-12-29

M.A.P. wrote:

How are you judging the album and you don't even know what it says yet? That's a whole other conversation. Let's use the King magazine Stacey Dash cover instead http://wbphillysoul.editboard.com/topic-of-the-moment-f1/king-magazine-the-prototype-stacy-dash-t667.htm

My judgement is based on my knowledge of Nas. Maybe I'll be surprised when the album comes out, but I doubt it.

Besides, we're talking about covers. Has here anyone actually read the Vogue feature?

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alyson · Number of posts: 1131 Registration date: 2007-01-04

i have and honestly the whole magazine is about bodies and people being comfortable with who they are and how they are shaped. there was a nice jill scott article, an article about how stopping a regular work out routine (borderline fanatical routine) MIGHT be better for you, very nice photos of all kinds of athletes vs models, and articles about some of the folks representing the US in this years olympics (which i didn't read.)

_________________
alyson...

"yesterday was practice."
~ jg